Friday, September 4, 2009

Can EVERY player win? A theoretical challenge

I'm not completely sure that the example here follows the timing rules 100-percent correctly, but I'm totally confident that the author has forgotten more about Cosmic Encounter's rules than I'll ever know, so I'm willing to roll with it. The basic premise: it's possible to have a five-way win in a five-player game.

If pressed, I would have guessed "not possible." I've always thought that someone — the poor slob playing defense being the most obvious example — had to lose in any given game of CE. Now I'm not so sure.

What say you, rules gurus? Genius idea ... or does it all fall apart somewhere?

14 comments:

David Montgomery said...

It made sense to me, on the basis of letting a reaction to any game winning event occur, but I could also see calling it after the wild tick-tock and parasite players have gone, since the deal hasn't happened yet, but the game has ended.

Lindsey said...

It's been a while since I played, but... I think an "all player" win doesn't even need to be very convoluted. Just make sure the defender is the Judge.

Furthur (Ex-Fiddler) said...

I'd rule it as a solo win for player E (Parasite Flare user). The rule is: "[t]he winner(s) are the first player(s) to have five colonies on any planets outside his or her home system." It doesn't say the players have to complete any pending encounters or deals. I almost ruled it for player D (Tick-Tock Flare user) but I realized that there would be a time interval between him abandoning a home colony and establishing a foreign colony (not a simultaneous "occupying" of two colonies) allowing "D" to sneak in for the win. He's first to five colonies. Game over.

Toomai said...

If wins were infinitely immediate, then whoever puts their ships down first during a deal or a multi-player offensive win would win solo. In that sense, incomplete actions have to be completed before a win can be called.

pgocosmic said...

infinitely immediate....isn't that some sort of sub atomic particle happening?

TheDukester said...

It would be a cool name for a band, too.

Hadsil said...

This was accomplished with an Eon set in a 4-player win many, many years ago. Virus player, Hurtz Player, and myself had 4 bases. The Fourth player had 3 bases. Virus drew me for Destiny. I knew she was going to win. I had nothing in my hand to stop Virus. However, Virus didn't know that. Virus invited Hurtz for a joint win. I didn't mind losing, but I was not going to lose to Virus and Hurtz. I told Virus she didn't need to invite Hurtz. With further talk she looked convinced. Hurtz saw this and began a major sales pitch offering to sell the game if necessary to ensure a joint win despite whatever trick I may be hiding. Virus was confused and wondered allowed if everyone could win, including Fourth player. I did some thinking and figured it out. Virus would invite Hurtz and Fourth player to ally. Hurtz rented to me a Cosmic Zap and the Parasite Flare. Hurtz rented to Fourth player the Miser Flare. We played challenge cards. I played a low Attack card while Virus played a high one. Virus multiplied. I Cosmic Zapped Virus. However, she still won the challenge, so Virus got her fifth base and won the game. Hurtz got his fifth base and won the game. Virus lost her power. I used the Parasite Flare to get my fifth base in her system and won the game. Fourth player played the Miser Flare, allowng him to win with one less base. Since he had 4 bases, he won the game. Everyone won the game.

Hadsil said...

Also, if wins are "infinitely immediate" game over, at least for pre-Fantasy Flight since they don't "exist" yet, how could The Super Sniveler Flare, or (Eon) Wild Plant (Mayfair) Super Plant Flare possibly be played?

Furthur (Ex-Fiddler) said...

I apologize for the confusion. I didn't mean "time" in any literal sense. I meant it as more of a division between events or individual game plays. I'm not (and wasn't) even sure how to explain it. But I believe that anybody landing with the Filth (Power) would all get their bases at the same "time". But what we have in the example: a Flare (Parasite) play within a Flare play (Tick-Tock) within an event (the deal resolving.) If somebody wins after a play/event is resolved (even if there are pending plays), I'd consider the game over. Not many agree, obviously.

Big Head Zach said...

There's a few ways in which the game can end outside of Resolution, such as with Masochist's power, or Mite blustering a base out of someone (not at all likely to happen), or an alien power allows the formation of a colony in a phase other than Resolution (not any in the current set, but others historically can, such as one of Jack's 100 Best of The Warp, the Impostor).

I think I might revise my opinion on timing of wins to say "at the end of the current phase, anyone who has 5 or more colonies, wins", instead of "at the end of the encounter", to account for these and future possibilities.

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