Saturday, December 19, 2009

Yeah, I'm a rebel. That's how I roll

Inspired by this thought over at BGG ...
... why would I want to ask for allies? An extra point per ship is pretty weak and the reinforcement cards are rare.
... I'm going to repeat an experiment I did a couple of years ago. For my next 30 games at Cosmic Encounter Online, I am not going to invite a single ally, offensively or defensively.* I will track the results and post a summary.

Anyone thinking "playing the 'no-invite' guy should be an easy win' " should look for user ID TheDukester at CE Online.

* The obvious exception, as always, is asking for defensive allies when defending against a possible game-winning challenge. I won't play kingmaker just for the sake of an experiment.

14 comments:

pgocosmic said...

If you track individual encounters you can get specific data not influenced by game outcome. Also if you note the date when you play your first no ally game and the last no ally game. We can do a query and get all the data on encounter outcomes, and game wins.

Warren said...

In my experience, too many players are too afraid to not ask for allies; if "everyone else" uses allies, then that must be the way to play, right? I love having these players at my table. I usually pick the worst offender and try to sit directly to his left.

This bugs me for some reason. I guess I feel Cosmic is a light enough game that you should not "game" the players like Poker where you are trying to take someone's money.

I might have to join this experiment 'cause I've always found evening out colonies via allies prevents a run away like this guy does.

TheDukester said...

Not really a fair statement.

I've taught CE to a number of players ... I've played poorly on purpose to keep newcomers in the game ... I've enjoyed quite a few goofy nights of "let's just wing it" CE ... I've been a good ambassador for the game for a number of years.

I was referencing playing against experienced players and **playing to win.** I thought that was clear.

I don't crush newcomers. But I will gleefully steal a win from a veteran player who over-invites.

TheDukester said...

Oh, and BTW: feel free to join the experiment ANY TIME.

I'll start the game; you go in next. That'll put you on my left.

Don't worry -- I'm recording the results.

Hadsil said...

Challenges are won and lost by just a few points. I've seen challenges lost but would have been won if only someone allied or just allied with one more token.

Attacks cards are a factor. Playing a 40 will win against an 8, barring powers. However, you also get 8 vs. 10, 14 vs. 17, 15 vs. 20. Allies do make a difference.

Adam said...

Obviously allies can make a difference. They wouldn't be part of the game otherwise. But they don't always make a difference, and yet there are many players who invite everyone every encounter, at least on defense. Strategically, this is not sound for any of a million reasons.

The "no allies" experiment is, as far as I know, just that: an experiment. I don't think the idea is to prove that allies are pointless. He's just trying to see how well he can do without them for the experiment's sake, or to see exactly how much of a difference they do make as a means of gauging their worth.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Duke. I think the experiment and post are being misunderstood though. I see it as an interesting and valuable experiment personally. My "no deals" experiment was equally fun and enlightening... especially when I got stuck as Empath.

TheDukester said...

Oh, yeah -- it's mostly just for something to do. Much like playing Philanthropist 10 times in a row or something like that.

But, that being said, I think it's patently obvious that most CE players over-value alliances. Or, as I put it over at BGG: everyone talks about winning **challenges**; I'm talking about winning **games.** And one sure way NOT to win games is to give your oh-so-temporary allies a bunch of rewards for really not doing much at all.

Plus, I've already done this once before, and I don't see any reason why the results won't be much the same. I should win about 55 to 60 percent of the time; I'll be surprised if it varies too much one way or the other.

The Warp said...

Well, the thing that set this off was someone asking what the point of inviting allies was, since they only added a few points. I think Gerald's point is intrinsic to CE. Most encounter wins are not blowouts. I think the spread (as someone mentioned elsewhere) is usually under 10. Allies can make the difference in most cases (not always, sure), but it's hardly a rare occurrence.

Hadsil said...

I didn't comment on the experiment. I commented on the original proposed idea that allies were useless.

oakleyses said...

air max, burberry outlet, true religion jeans, louboutin, louis vuitton outlet, louboutin, ray ban sunglasses, tiffany and co, coach outlet store online, oakley sunglasses cheap, christian louboutin shoes, longchamp outlet, louis vuitton, true religion jeans, tory burch outlet, kate spade outlet, kate spade handbags, oakley sunglasses, jordan shoes, polo ralph lauren outlet, louis vuitton outlet, louis vuitton handbags, coach outlet, prada outlet, ray ban sunglasses, chanel handbags, michael kors outlet, longchamp handbags, michael kors outlet, oakley sunglasses, nike shoes, air max, coach purses, michael kors outlet, longchamp handbags, louis vuitton outlet stores, nike free, prada handbags, coach factory outlet, gucci outlet, tiffany and co, louboutin outlet, michael kors outlet, polo ralph lauren outlet, michael kors outlet, burberry outlet, michael kors outlet

oakleyses said...

nike roshe run, hollister, sac hermes, polo ralph lauren, hogan outlet, abercrombie and fitch, ralph lauren, nike blazer, true religion outlet, nike free pas cher, north face, michael kors, air jordan, nike trainers, vans pas cher, longchamp, nike free, nike tn, air force, mulberry, polo lacoste, michael kors, oakley pas cher, air max pas cher, air max, timberland, sac longchamp, sac burberry, nike roshe, air max, lululemon, louis vuitton, michael kors pas cher, barbour, new balance pas cher, true religion outlet, sac louis vuitton, ray ban pas cher, sac guess, converse pas cher, louis vuitton uk, louboutin, sac louis vuitton, north face, vanessa bruno, ray ban sunglasses, nike air max, hollister

oakleyses said...

marc jacobs, soccer shoes, abercrombie and fitch, hollister, asics running shoes, canada goose, ugg boots, nfl jerseys, reebok outlet, herve leger, ugg, north face outlet, mont blanc, longchamp, insanity workout, canada goose uk, chi flat iron, babyliss pro, ugg pas cher, ugg australia, canada goose jackets, mcm handbags, canada goose, wedding dresses, new balance shoes, mac cosmetics, soccer jerseys, celine handbags, birkin bag, p90x, ferragamo shoes, valentino shoes, nike huarache, beats by dre, ghd, instyler, jimmy choo outlet, lululemon outlet, bottega veneta, canada goose, rolex watches, canada goose outlet, vans shoes, nike roshe run, moncler, ugg boots, north face jackets, uggs outlet, giuseppe zanotti

oakleyses said...

louboutin, moncler outlet, juicy couture outlet, iphone 6 cases, hollister, moncler, karen millen, oakley, baseball bats, wedding dresses, ray ban, gucci, canada goose, ralph lauren, canada goose, swarovski crystal, hollister clothing store, moncler, air max, converse, pandora jewelry, juicy couture outlet, rolex watches, moncler, supra shoes, moncler, pandora charms, ugg, vans, toms shoes, links of london, pandora charms, air max, timberland boots, parajumpers, hollister, thomas sabo, louis vuitton, montre homme, coach outlet store online, lancel, ugg, swarovski, moncler, converse shoes

oakleyses said...

louboutin, moncler outlet, juicy couture outlet, iphone 6 cases, hollister, moncler, karen millen, oakley, baseball bats, wedding dresses, ray ban, gucci, canada goose, ralph lauren, canada goose, swarovski crystal, hollister clothing store, moncler, air max, converse, pandora jewelry, juicy couture outlet, rolex watches, moncler, supra shoes, moncler, pandora charms, ugg, vans, toms shoes, links of london, pandora charms, air max, timberland boots, parajumpers, hollister, thomas sabo, louis vuitton, montre homme, coach outlet store online, lancel, ugg, swarovski, moncler, converse shoes